EYE2021 - Being a woman in the music industry: a conversation with two strong voices
9 min read
Ahead of the European Youth Event, we wanted to have a chat with two women working in the music industry to discuss a major topic for today and tomorrow: gender equality. Both committed to this cause, Uèle Lamore gives a detailed account of her life as a musician, conductor, and composer based in Paris, in a conversation with Francine Gorman, who worked in London as a pledge coordinator for Keychange (a global network and movement promoting gender equality in the music industry) and recently increased her remit to become Keychange Project Manager. They both share their experiences and hopes for a fairer society.
Why is gender equality important?
Francine Gorman – It just comes down to the fundamental human right of everybody being able to access the same opportunities to take decisions into their own hands and to progress their lives as they want to – their work life, their personal life, their financial life… The world that we currently live in does not offer equal rights to all humans, therefore it’s very important that we raise awareness of that fact and that we put some positive, progressive actions in place to make sure that people don’t feel held back by their gender, sexual orientation, or by the colour of their skin…
Uèle Lamore – It’s a basic principle! It’s pretty hard to find a good reason to be against it. It just needs to be a given, something that doesn’t even have to be discussed. I feel that in some respects we are getting there, at least for the people of my generation (Uèle is 27 – ed.). I’m aware that I’m part of the privileged, living in Paris, but it’s not the same for somebody living somewhere else. We need to think about it as a global issue.
FG – I absolutely agree. If you look at the statistics that are available, the global gender pay gap is horrendous. It’s going to take something like 130 years for us to reach pay parity. With Keychange, we’re specifically working with the music industry and the numbers are quite harrowing. For instance, the number of compositions performed on stage that have been created by non-males is far less than 10% on an annual basis. It just highlights that there is vast inequality at every single level of the music industry. Even though it could be quite encouraging to be within these projects that are forward-thinking, we can’t lose sight of the fact that there is a long journey ahead of us. We need to keep making this conversation as loud and as visible as we possibly can in order to make some sustainable change.
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When did you first become aware of gender inequality?
FG – Extremely young for me, growing up with two brothers. They were taken to a football match on a Saturday morning, and I got sent to ballet lessons against my will! I wanted to be at the football with the boys. There are slight issues like that when you find that your lives are already patterned, pre-gendered, pre-disposed depending on the gender that you were assigned at birth.
UL – I had a similar experience. I remember when I was a kid, I really wanted to do ice hockey. I was obsessed with it, I had jerseys and everything, but I could not find a club in the whole of France. Recently, I thought about it, and I still couldn’t find a club for women! There are so many clubs for men… Some things don’t change and that’s crazy.
FG – Even when it comes to choosing a subject that you’re expected to study at university, even that can be quite gendered. One of the most dangerous areas around this topic are the conversations that we don’t have around equal pay, for example. We as women can think that we’re progressing quite steadily and successfully throughout our career, and then all of a sudden, you’ll be made aware that you’re only making half the amount of the money that the person sat next to you who is male is making. This is when it starts becoming really apparent that there’s this hidden inequality that we need to bring to light and bring to the forefront.
In the music industry, there are few female conductors like Uèle…
UL – Yes, I’m kind of seen as a unicorn but I don’t feel like one! The question is: why don’t girls want to study sound engineering, producing, or more generally go to music schools? Maybe because they’re told that they’d have less opportunities than the guys. The parents and the teachers have a big responsibility in this education. It’s important to say that if you don’t see it, it doesn’t mean you can’t to do it.
FG – Absolutely. Role models are very important. When we first launched Keychange, there was this thing that happened on social media in the UK with the Reading and Leeds festival line-ups. Somebody photoshopped out any band that didn’t contain at least one woman-identifying member and there were like 6 bands left out of 80 bands that had been booked. It was a visible demonstration of the lack of role models that the young women attending these festivals were seeing on stage. It’s the same within the wider industry: if you’re not seeing any women CEOs in companies, then perhaps you don’t have that perspective for your career. We try to embolden and encourage women to smash through the glass ceiling.
UL – Honestly, I didn’t really ever have any bad experiences, but it has to do with the fact that I’m in a very niche place. With the London Contemporary Orchestra, I work with a lot of girls in every position of command. I know that the rest of the music industry is not like that. There needs to be an effort in putting more women upfront in hiring opportunities, booking festivals… Positive discrimination can lead to advancements, changes the landscape step by step to make it more diverse.
FG – Yes. We’re trained to push the bad experiences out of our minds and to forget about them. Back in my journalism days, I’ve walked into rooms full of music industry executives who treated me like an intern when I was there to do a trained, professional job. My approach to that is always to take the higher ground, be bold, stand my ground and get my work done. It ties in with Keychange as well. Sitting at the heart of the project is a pledge system. We’re in touch with all kinds of music organizations from orchestras and ensembles to concerts houses, publishing companies, or booking agencies, and we invite all of them to look at their rosters, their staff, the gender balance of their interns, etc. We get them to just look at their set-up with gender representation in mind. If there’s one trombone seat available in an orchestra and five guys are applying for that seat, then where are the girls? What programs can we put in place to encourage girls to play the trombone? Quite often, it’s not huge changes that need to be made. It’s about lots and lots of small changes that are sustainable and meaningful.
Do you think the situation is evolving in a positive way? Are you hopeful for the future?
FG – Yes, definitely. I’ve been working on this project since 2018 and I’m already having very different conversations, much more encouraging and progressive. I’m seeing a lot more people taking responsibility themselves for the changes that they want to have. I think that’s the only way that we’re ever going to see lasting change. So, I am hopeful!
UL – I hope that the idea of misogyny and the question of gender equality will become subjects of the past. The younger generation of women are extremely aware of it and have absolutely no patience with it anymore. One day, we’ll have zero tolerance for that. I’m starting to see it even with people my age, who are 25-30. We’re starting to know how to deal with that.
In your childhood or today, are there any personalities who have been inspiring you on this issue of gender equality?
UL – One artist who immediately comes to mind is St. Vincent, Annie Clark. She did a lot for the image of women in rock music. It sounds stupid but she’s a great example of an amazing female guitar player, it’s pretty rare to find one sadly. Also, in the field of film scores, there are many women composers who have won the biggest distinctions, like Mica Levi who won an Oscar for Jackie. It’s good to have this representation at a level of excellence.
FG – Nina Simone and Dolly Parton have been super strong, resilient, challenging characters throughout their entire careers. They’re confident to put out the kind of music that they love and want to make, and they’ve inspired generations after them. Professional, creative, long-lasting talents.
What are your messages for the European youth?
FG – Be bold, be confident with your talent and yourself. Don’t be afraid to take opportunities. Now is probably the best time to be a woman artist or creator because there are a lot of people that are looking specifically for that talent. I don’t want these artists and musicians to feel that they’re selected for line-ups purely because of their gender, but now is the time that they have the opportunity to get on stage and to prove their reason and belonging within that position. So just grab it, do it!
UL – Yes. There’s always this question: if you could go back in time, where would you go? As a woman, nowhere! I’m fine right here, right now! As you said, just take a chance. It’s something that people really need to hear and believe. And it’s not because you don’t see it around that it doesn’t exist. Just go for it and whatever happens, you will learn.
